CRANBERRY TWP — The 107-day-old impasse in adopting a state budget was the first of many topics state legislators discussed Wednesday at the Southern Butler County Business Association’s inaugural legislative roundtable at South College Pittsburgh.

State Sen. Elder Vogel, R-47th, who serves as vice chairman of the appropriations committee, said expenses are increasing and revenue is decreasing.

Spending under the 2025 budget will consume $3 billion of general fund balance by the end of 2026 and $3 billion to $4 billion of the rainy day fund by the end of 2027, Vogel said.

He attributed part of the problem to former Gov. Tom Wolf giving unionized state employees annual raises of 5% to 7%.

The length of the current budget impasse is a “little blip” compared to one that lasted until the end of November under former Gov. Ed Rendell and another one that stretched into March, he said.

Vogel said day care centers, rape crisis centers, school districts and others have contacted him about the impasse. He said school districts told him they can get by until early November. However he acknowledged that Westmoreland County laid off employees because of missed payments from the state.

Last month, at a senior expo he holds every year in Beaver County, some of the 700 seniors who attended told him to resolve the impasse without raising taxes.

“’Don’t raise our taxes whatever you do. I don’t care about the budget. Don’t raise our taxes,’” Vogel said.

He said state Treasurer Stacy Garrity recently made available $500 million in bridge loans to county governments and Head Start organizations to support human services, and the Senate passed legislation to forgive the 4.5% interest because the state can write off the interest utilizing the millions in interest being earned on the money it is not distributing.

“Right now the state is making about $16 million on the money we haven’t passed out to everybody,” Vogel said.

The House of Representatives, which has a one-seat Democratic majority, has not acted on a $47.6 billion spending bill the Senate passed in August, he said.

He said Gov. Josh Shapiro should be more engaged in getting the budget passed.

State Rep. Marci Mustello, R-11th, said she is surprised she hasn’t heard from more residents about the impasse, and Shapiro can help resolve it.

“The governor really is in control of this and he could just make a call, get the leaders in his office and get this done,” Mustello said.

More sources of revenue, such as data centers, are needed because expenses are increasing while revenue is flat, she said.

State Rep. Jeremy Shaffer, a Republican who represents the 28th district in northern Allegheny County, said he gets some but not many calls about the impasse.

“We do get calls. Not nearly as many as you think. And I think that could be part of the problem in that there’s not a sense of urgency,” Shaffer said.

State employees are still being paid, state parks are still open and state services continue to function, he said.

“So, in some sense, for most people there’s really not a practical effect,” Shaffer said.

However, service organizations and school districts aren’t receiving their payments and some employees have been laid off, he said.

The state had a $2 billion operating deficit in the past fiscal year and the deficit would increase to $5 billion if Shapiro’s proposed budget would pass, he said.

He said Democrats in the house want to spend the one-time COVID-19 stimulus money from the federal government.

“It’s not a good idea to spend down our saving account to pay for gas and groceries because in two years we’re going to have an $8 billion operational deficit,” Shaffer said.

Turning to education, Vogel said there are too many school districts and some small districts have 25 to 45 graduates. The 500 districts should be consolidated into about 250, he said.

School districts and universities should align their curricula to prepare students for existing jobs, he added.

Mustello said students should be made aware of vocational technical training they can receive in school and the jobs they can get with that training.

She also said school district mergers should be considered.

“Merging is not always the sexiest topic but it needs to be talked about. We have to do something to save money for these school districts,” Mustello said.

She said she wonders if students in small districts are getting the education they need.

Shaffer said the area would benefit if some of the tens of thousands of students who attend area colleges would stay and work here after they graduate.

He said he supports school choice in secondary education.

Lack of broadband internet service in some areas came to light during the COVID-19 pandemic because students had no way of working online, Vogel said.

He said the $100 million the state got from the federal government for broadband expansion is helping but many areas still lack service.

A more creative approach, possibly involving satellite service, is needed to expand service, Vogel said.

Ron Henshaw, Cranberry Township’s planning and development services director, said the need for data and high speed internet will never go away and Cranberry allows a competitive market of providers to give residents a choice.

Mustello said broadband service is needed in rural areas and Armstrong currently is expanding its service.

She said prevailing wage requirements are delaying service expansion progress.

Turning to transportation, Vogel commended the Route 228 and Freedom Road expansion projects. He said expanding and building new highways is challenging in the state due to hilly topography and many waterways.

He suggested replacing the high occupancy vehicle lane that is part of Interstate 279 with rail transit.

Henshaw said officials in Harrisburg are talking about adding a second commuter railroad line between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg so trains could travel in both directions at the same time.

Shaffer said fixed rail services are enormously expensive to build and maintain. He said it takes the train six or seven hours to travel to Harrisburg, but he can drive there in three-and-a-half hours.

Buses are less expensive and are better at accommodating schedule changes than trains, but he said he can drive to Pittsburgh in half the time it takes on a bus.

The three members of the state General Assembly expressed willingness to consider downsizing the legislature. With 253 members — 203 in the house and 50 in the Senate — Pennsylvania has the largest legislature in the country.

“I wouldn’t mind putting myself out of a job if it meant making a more efficient government,” Vogel said.

He said the cost of the legislature should be looked at. Having legislators spend more time in session or working part-time are worth considering. Some state legislatures work only three to four months a year, he said.

“We’re here to serve the people and if you have to downsize to make things more efficient you do it,” Vogel said.

Mustello said the cost of the legislature should be studied, but spending cuts should be made in all departments and agencies. Even the courts need “a little” spending cut, she said. A part-time legislature would benefit residents, she added.

Shaffer said he has cosponsored reform legislation, including measures to reduce the size of legislature and require biannual budgets. He said he believes in having the legislature in session for 60 to 90 days and proposed halting automatic pay raises for legislators if a budget isn’t adopted by the June 30 deadline.